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B.C.M. Bertram

Printed From: Cross & Cockade
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: General
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=463
Printed Date: 21 May 2022 at 09:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: B.C.M. Bertram
Posted By: Varese2002
Subject: B.C.M. Bertram
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2011 at 06:38

I noticed the question of Errol Martyn in the Forum Aerodrome. As I am only a guest now in that Forum I cannot give any answers there, but I realized it can be done here Smile

Quote
B C M Western, French certificate No.1401

New Zealand-born Bertram Charles Maximilian WESTERN was granted aviator's certificate No. 1401 by the Aero Club de France in mid-1913.

Would someone be able to advise me as to the exact date, please?

The Royal Aero Club also 'approved' Western's French certificate at its meeting of 1 July 1913. Confusingly, however, their index card records the certificate date as 12 July [sic].

Many thanks in advance for any assistance offered.

Errol

I do not have the correct answer to hand at the moment, but surely you can find the exact date of the French brevet in:

Mémorial des pionniers de l'aviation, 1909 - 1921: brevets délivrés par l'Aéro-Club de France, 18 688 pilotes. 1998. Paris: Association pour la Recherche de Documentation sur l'Histoire de l'Aéronautique Navale. ISBN 9782950766397

Although OOP you can probably consult it in a library. The data presented is based on the relevant archive of the Aero Club de France now in the Musée de l'Air et l'Espace (MEA). Look further for the book http://ardhan.pagesperso-orange.fr/s_ouvrages/memorial.htm -
All the best

Kees



Replies:
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2011 at 07:51
Interestingly, in the Mémorial des pionniers on page 58, down the Date column from 04/07/13
his Certificate listing reads:
Weistern       Bertram        Grand Bretagne           1401         Farman
the next date is 14/08/13, which appears on page 59, some 23 names later, so his certificate was granted during that period, but on exactly which day is unclear, the certificate listings would appear to have been recorded in batches.
Regards,
Colin



Posted By: Varese2002
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2011 at 20:02

Hi Colin, thanks a lot that you could have a look in this book. Probably you own a copy of it.

Although not 100 % sure,  it seems that the Brevets de pilote-aviateur de l'Aéro-Club de France were presented in a ceremony to a batch of fliers. The date in the book is the date d'obtention which can be translated into English as 'graduation date'.

Weistern (Bertram) is indeed the spelling that the Aéro-Club de France used for Western, for some reason or other. 

Thanks again

Kees


Posted By: Errol Martyn
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 00:03
Gents,
 
Many thanks for your responses.
 
Any ideas as to the meaning of 'Grand Bretagne'? It does not appear to be a place name.
 
Errol


Posted By: drailton
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 08:09
Grand Bretagne = Great Britain

-------------
David R


Posted By: Errol Martyn
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2011 at 02:07
David,
 
Oh, that little place!
 
Errol



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