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Identity of crashed aircraft

Printed From: Cross & Cockade
Category: Member's Photos
Forum Name: British
Forum Discription: Photos of British Aircraft
Printed Date: 22 May 2022 at 22:54
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.03 -

Topic: Identity of crashed aircraft
Posted By: 354 Griggs
Subject: Identity of crashed aircraft
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 22:01
This picture shows the aftermath of a crash near Dover, Kent. In it is my GG Uncle Fl/Sgnt Sidney Charles Griggs (centre). Why it is so posed I'm not sure! Can anyone identify the aircraft? BE2c perhaps?

Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 08:57

is all the RAFM History Vault has on him. No Casualty Record Card.

Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 09:37
Griggs must be part of the 'clear up' party. Note that the officer in the maternity jacket has no wings.
In addition to the information posted on the Beet thread, 'Contemptible Little Flying Corps' has:
29.9.1909 Enlisted, formerly 19349 Sapper, 59 Company, Royal Engineers
28.12.1912 Posted to 2 Squadron on transfer to RFC.
9.9.1914 AM1 4 Squadron, France.
10/11.3.1915 DCM awarded (LG 3.6.1915)
Russian 3rd Class Medal of St George (LG 25.8.1915), as Sergeant, 5 Squadron, 2 Wing
1.9.1916 (WEF) Promoted Flight Sergeant (painter).
1.4.1918 RAF Muster Roll Chief Mechanic.
29.9.1927 (WEF) RAF LSGC, Flt Sergeant.

Griggs appears to be a Corporal in the picture. Annoyingly, his hand obscures where his DCM medal would be, but the photo must be late 1914/very early 1915.

The wing of the crashed aircraft is broad chord, without ailerons, and no obvious strut attachment points: Bleriot XI on a ferry flight to France ?

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2016 at 20:31
Thanks Nick, your information is gratefully received. I don't really have any expert knowledge to bring to the forum, I only have my GG Uncle's photos and service record from the RAF coupled with the desire to know more of what he did.
If you think posting up more photos would be useful I'll do so.

Posted By: KK
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 14:07
Not a Bleriot .Spot the four bladed prop and an in-line engine.
No ailerons so could be a BE2 a/b ?
the civilians look like they're auditioning for "Cider With Rosie".

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 17:18
Hopefully this makes it easier to identify:

Posted By: whiskymac
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 21:40
Wonderful photo. Surely a BE of some type?

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2016 at 18:50
Whatever it is it was "another one of Capt White's crashes"

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2016 at 18:54
"Whitfield near dover 1916."

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2016 at 19:59
This one is easier to identify even if its the wrong way up! No evidence it was one of Capt White's. :0)

This one beggars belief!

Posted By: whiskymac
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 06:41
The inverted a/c seemingly an Avro 504 (K?) serial (A?)8599.

The second - possibly also a 504 - reminds me of Michael Caine's words in the film The Italian Job - 'now whatever you do, don't move!'

Posted By: Paul R Hare
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2016 at 09:44
Just seen this series of posts and I can confirm that the aircraft in the original photo is a B.E.2c.
No idea as to a serial though.

Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 09:49
8599 is an Avro 504
A8599 was a BE2e

Posted By: whiskymac
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 14:54
Thanks for the confirmation Nick.   I just wasn't quite sure if that is a small 'A' visible before the serial - or not.   Sturtivant certainly does detail Avro 504C '8599' but curiously does not give any indication of any incident at Dover.

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 16:52
One more of a crash in Dover, another 504? No date or other info.
Not surprising I suppose, the updraft from the cliffs must have made it a bit difficult taking off and landing. Swingate is pretty close to the edge.

Posted By: mickdavis
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 01:10
BE12 - BE2c type mainplanes and BE2e type tailplane.

Posted By: mickdavis
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 01:12
A8599 was an Avro 504A that was with 55 RS/TS at Yatesbury in May 1917.

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 22:18
Our Charlie liked to collect photos of crashed aircraft!

Posted By: KK
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 15:29
l think the dates wrong here .It looks to me to be a post-war crash.
"early 1917 "is certainly in error.

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 15:48
What make this a post war crash? Early 1917 seems fine to me as they were introduced into service at that time.

Posted By: KK
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 14:52
Early 1917 is a bit soon to see unit IDs on a DH 4 ,also
the aircraft is painted white or silver [a post -war trait], a situation backed up by the fact the mechanics wear peaked caps not the RFC split-ass caps That plane is painted a pale colour rather than being left 'natural finish'.It just feels post -war.

Posted By: 354 Griggs
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 15:25
Thanks KK. That's very helpful.

Posted By: Dealboy
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 13:14
The crashed machine on its back looks to me like an Avro 504 because
of the landing skid between the wheels-and the serial no 8599 should
confirm this and also whether it was RFC or RNAS. The RFC aerodrome
was at Swingate and the RNAS aerodrome was as Guston only about a
mile away. The other machine- Sopwith Pup? looks to have landed on 
the outer curtain wall of Dover Castle or near the old railway line which
ran down the front of the cliffs to the harbour.Once again only a few
hundred yards from either aerodrome-easy mistakes to make if the
engine suddenly cut out and there is nowhere flat to land!

Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2016 at 09:20
Rather surprised that nobody has identified that silver finished A2 as a DH9A, which it most certainly is, this one with an extended exhaust pipe. So this heavy landing is almost certainly a post-war photograph, while the type first flew in March 1918.

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