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Photos from 14 or 111 Squadron WW1

Printed From: Cross & Cockade
Category: Member's Photos
Forum Name: British
Forum Discription: Photos of British Aircraft
URL: http://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1431
Printed Date: 28 May 2020 at 12:01
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Photos from 14 or 111 Squadron WW1
Posted By: gilesforrest
Subject: Photos from 14 or 111 Squadron WW1
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2016 at 21:47
Hi,

I believe my great grandfather was in the above squadrons in the Middle East during WW1.

We only have 1 photograph of him so I'd love to see if there may be others of him in other people's photo albums!

Even if not, would love to see photos from that time and place anyway.

If you have any to share I'd love to see them.

Many thanks,

Giles



Replies:
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 16:17
Hi Giles,
If you would care to talk more about this would you please email me directly at prepress@crossandcockade.com
and hopefully attach a jpg of your grandfather, as you don't say what his rank was there.
Many thanks, Colin


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 16:29
There is Mike O'Connor's indepth coverage of 14 Squadron in the C&CI Journal which includes a great deal of biographical detail. 
As 111 Squadron was formed from the scout flight of 14 Squadron, and there was considerable movement of personnel between squadrons in the Middle East (with 1 AFC flying other squadrons' aircraft, it would seem), there is a good chance that he will appear somewhere.
Greater chance if he was aircrew, of course !


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 17:27
Thanks Nick, I have had a look but no luck I'm afraid.

He was an Observer.

Colin - thanks, I'll drop you an email with photo and background.

Regards,

Giles


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 08:24
What was his full name and rank ?
If he was an observer he can only have been with 111 Squadron when they had Bristol F2B Fighters which means that he may have gone to 14 Squadron when the Biffs were replaced and went to 1 AFC. 
Alternatively, he may have gone to 111 Squadron at the end of the war when the Biffs came back to 111 from 1 AFC, and then 111 was renumbered 14 Squadron !


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 08:37
Hi Nick,

I've been trying to find out his movements - it's very tricky from his records, but this is what I have so far:

Full name: Guy Archibald Forrest
Previously in South African Constabulary, PPLCI , then Army Service Corps in Egypt (Kantara/Post Said/Ismalia) as 2nd/Lt, then:
21st August 1916: Attached to 5th Wing (assume this is 14 Squadron although his records make no mention of it) [Source: ASC Records]
9th September 1916: Stationed at “HQ HT Units, Canal Zone, Ismailia” [Source: ASC Records]
1st October 1916: Stationed at “HQ HT Units, Canal Zone, Ismailia” [Source: ASC Records]
21st October 1916: Appointed Flying Officer (Observer) and transferred to the General List (with seniority 21st August 1916) [Source: ASC and Air Records]
12th November 1916: Departed Suez on El Kahira [Source: Peter Wright article “Lawrence’s Air Force”] (trying to confirm this with official records)
17th November 1916: Arrives Rabegh on El Kahira [Source: Peter Wright article “Lawrence’s Air Force”]
12th February 1916: At No.3 School of Military Aviation [Source: Air Records] 
26th February 1917: “Proceeded to Aden. H.T. ‘Jeddah’ & struck off strength of E” [Source: ASC Records] 
25th May 1917: At Suez as Observer on reconnaissance mission to NEKHL. Said to be part of 14 Squadron [Source: Ross Smith Diary] 
1st July 1917: Promoted to Lieutenant [Source: Air Records]
15 August 1917: Appointed as Recording Officer for 111 Squadron [Source: Air Records]
22nd February 1918: HOME ESTAB 39th Squadron [Source: Air Records]


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 09:04
As he was in Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (composed, originally, of British ex-servicemen living in Canada, for which I guess he was entitled to join because of his police service), I'd look at his Canadian records.

14 Squadron was part of 5 Wing RFC, though he seems to have been attached to HQ 5 Wing.

39 Squadron was a Home Defence unit.



Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 10:36
Thanks Nick,

I do have his PPCLI records which end when he transferred to ASC.

What would be his role if attached to HQ do you know?

Regards,

Giles


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 10:55
Probably staff work, though it is notable that he graduated as an observer and not as an Admin Officer.
His ability for staff work is reflected in his appointment as Recording Officer for 111 Squadron.  


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:08
Yes that's interesting that he would be appointed an Observer after 2 months if he hadn't done any Observer duties. Especially as I understand (from http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T2ZEBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T2ZEBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false ) that to be gazetted an Observer required recommendation from CO and an Observer position being available in a Squadron - so he must have been attached to a Squadron on 21st October....question is, for how long?


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:31
Whilst in the ASC he was listed as "S.O.H.Q" and then became "T.O.H.Q" - the T.O. I deduced was Transport Officer and the S.O. guessed was Supply Office - maybe it was Staff Officer?


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:40
You could look in the Army Lists to see if he has a GSO - General Staff Officer - grading.


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:47
It's odd, I couldn't find him in the Army Lists (maybe I was looking in the wrong place - do they include 2nd/Lieut?). 

I found him in the April 1918 Air Force List as an Observer Officer:
http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/forrest-g.a" rel="nofollow - http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/forrest-g.a


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:54
All commissioned ranks are included in the Monthly and Quarterly Army Lists. 
I would expect to find him in the Army Lists right up to the end of the war as a secondment to the RAF.
You can try the London Gazette website for dates of commissioning, promotion etc, bt the search engine is a bit cranky.


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 11:59
I've found his entries in the Gazette ok, but as you say I'd expect to find him in the Army Lists.

The entry for September 1916 doesn't have him in the index:
http://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/pageturner.cfm?id=90641847" rel="nofollow - http://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/pageturner.cfm?id=90641847

Or am I looking in the wrong place?

Thanks!

Giles


Posted By: gilesforrest
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 17:09
Someone on another forum helped me out on this:

Giles:  The problem is that you are looking in the wrong Army Lists.  Quarterly Army Lists only list regular officers and Forrest was not a regular officer.  If you examine the Monthly Army Lists you will find him listed as a Temporary 2nd Lieutenant, ASC effective 13 November 1915 and as a Flying Officer, RFC, Military Wing, Aeroplanes (Observer) effective 21 August 1916.

 

Regards, Dick Flory



Posted By: Jaqs
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 04:47
Hi All , I am a new member searching for Any information on ww1 pilot Stanley Frank Allabarton , Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Corps ww1.

I believe that in the vast bank of knowledge, information & records that members of this group will undoubtedly have ~ must hold some info or images pertaining to the great man.

I am researching the man for what remains of his family.
He ended up living in Canada late 30 & early 40's & would greatly value Any info pertaining to that period or his war service.

I / we have a full list of dates etc pertaining to his service record , but Any info or images would be greatly valued & appreciated.

Many Thanks & Regards to All ,
Nicholas.


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 08:10
Allabarton left at 6 am on an offensive patrol, led by Captain WJ Cairnes,east of Croiselles-Bailleul, in 19 Squadron SPAD SVII B1627, on 19 May, 1917.

Spotted a hostile aircraft east of Croiselles, about 10 miles east of Lines.

He was last seen east of Arras, and posted missing when he failed to return at 8:30 am.

Confirmed as POW. Forced to land due to anti-aircraft fire damage.

Repatriated 3 January, 1919.

Try Ancestry for a Royal Aero Club certificate portrait photo.

Derek Palmer's 'Fighter Squadron' provides a good summary of 19 Squadron operations.


Posted By: NickForder
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 08:17
SUPPLEMENT To THE LONDON GAZETTE, 14 SEPTEMBER, 1916. 8989
The undermentioned to be temp. 2nd Lts. (on prob.) for duty with R.F.C. 5th Sept. 1916: — 
Stanley Frank Allabarton.

See also http://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1273 for notes on photos of crash. Notes that the Spad came down at Harnes, north east of Lens




Posted By: nieuport11
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 09:50
There is a Red Cross file and attachments for him here:
http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/258349/3/2/
Enter the 'PA' reference numbers to get the individual documents
There is a Casualty card in the RAF Museum:
http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/allabarton-s.f
I'll send you a pm with individual Casualty reports



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